Interview with BDA Chairman, Owen Pay

In an in-depth interview we find out more about the new BDA Chairman Owen Pay and his wife Josy Roberts-Pay.

From the very outset Owen was at pains to point out that his is really a Chairmanship double act and that he works very much in partnership with Josy. As our interview progressed it became clear that they are a formidable duo and both equally dedicated to and infatuated with the Dragon Class.

Josy and Owen sailing together.

How and when did you start sailing and how did you get into the Dragon fleet?
Owen -

Living less than a quarter of a mile from the sea at Southend [Essex] I started sailing wearing armbands and with my Dad in his Flying Dutchman. I had a terrible childhood - on the water every weekend! As a youngster I sailed anything they'd take me out in, I had an Optimist and then sailed Laser's and Enterprises.

I saw Dragons for the first time in the Medway when I was 12, and thought "I want to sail one of those one day". When I was 15 I went to watch my brother sail in Burnham. Ken Bushall, a stalwart of the Burnham fleet spotted me in the Royal Corinthian Yacht Club and said "you can come sailing with me next week" and that was that. I crewed for Ken right the way through university on GBR 467 Smaug.

It never occurred to me that I wouldn't steer a Dragon. When I was 17 Ken heard that I'd won a Laser regatta in Southend and he told me to come round early for racing. We went out in the Dragon in the morning and he gave me the helm and after 10 minutes he said "Right - I'm off on business next week and the boat's yours".

When I went away to university my regular slot with Ken was taken by my long time friend Chris Brittain. Surplus to requirements, on those weekends I could get back, so I started sailing with David Dann and his family from Medway aboard Fenrir (GBR 416)..

I'd done a couple of Edinburgh Cups with Ken but the Danns took me to my first Gold Cup in Enkhuisen, which was very exciting, and I just got more and more hooked. I crewed for David for a long time and then Peter, his son, would borrow the boat and we’d go off boys together and make fools of ourselves at different regattas across Europe..

The international circuit is very attractive although I don’t do as much as I used to because I'm very aware that the domestic scene needs supporting. Although Britain is by no means alone in that as I discovered when I went to the IDA meeting in Oslo last year. Although some countries seem to have got it right, Germany for instance, the majority of national classes reported lower domestic participation.

What other classes have you sailed in?
Owen -

I've sailed all sorts of classes but never at the expense of a Dragon regatta! I spent three years sailing with with a great family crew in a Sigma 38 in EAORA, and one memorable Antigua Week. We've done quite a bit of 707 sailing with friends and I'll go and race in other classes when ever anyone asks just to see what other fleets are like. I did a couple of seasons in a Laser 5000 with Peter Dann which was different. Josy and I sailed an ISO for a few seasons and spent a fair bit of time upside down.

The Dragon is such a beautiful boat - I can never find anything else to beat it. It's all very fine having canting keels and screaming around at 25 knots, but there's nothing aesthetically pleasing about many of the modern boats. When you see a fleet of Dragons it's not only a pleasure to sail them it's a pleasure to be amongst them. I have never understood handicap racing when there is true One Design available There is also something a wee bit special about Dragon sailors. The combination of competitiveness, old fashioned fair play - in the majority of cases!!! - and the beauty of the boat attracts people who have a certain philosophy in life.

What other hobbies do you enjoy?
Owen -

Three years ago we bought Dragon Lodge here in Churt (the result of an internet search - we didn't as many Dragon sailors have suggested - rename it!) so DIY and trying to keep things under control in the garden keeps me busy.

Josy interjects here to give us a little bit of background on Owen's approach to DIY!
Josy -

When we first got the house we drew up a list of some 35 different projects that needed doing. We had a proper meeting (chaired by myself) and discussed and agreed the priorities - all very sensible. Then Owen - completely off list - decided that what he really really wanted to do was dig out the hill at the back of the house to create a parking space big enough for a Dragon.

One small shovel several weekends and 100 wheelbarrow of earth later and barely a dent in the hill had been made - Mr Pay realised there had been a slight miscalculation. Luckily he had charmed our neighbour who turned up with a tractor and trailer and helped remove what we estimated was about 5 tonnes of earth and sand.

So now on to Phase II - the construction of a retaining wall - 15 ft long 5 ft high. Very manageable. Owen carefully analysed the requirements for concrete, sand and breeze block for the "Great Wall of Churt", and scribbled measurements down on various bits of paper. I offered to do a spreadsheet for him - but no, he was in control. A few days later I get a call at work and it’s Owen telling me he thinks he may have made a another "slight" miscalculation, there are 11 palettes of Concrete blocks on the way, and the men in the builders merchants had been giving him strange looks. (He had ordered enough to build a small house.)

We have developed from experience three principles for DIY marital harmony - never start a project in the sailing season, never have more than one project on the go, and entertain in the winter (but not every weekend, or during a kitchen re-fit.)

I have given up thinking Dragon Lodge will be a double page spread in Homes and Gardens anytime soon. Luckily we both agree that if the sun is shining, the wind was blowing and there is some Dragon sailing on offer with an enticing apres-sail arrangement you'll find us dolling foul weather gear rather than gardening gloves and searching out our leatherman, and tossing the electric drills, sanders, colour charts and paint brushes into a box marked END OCTOBER.

Owen, what do you do for a living?
Owen -

I started off as an electronic engineer, then I did some programming and then I got into technical training for large systems. Now I'm a consultant working for a company that writes software that helps with security. I work directly with the customers helping them set up their security. I have to travel more than I'd like but it's an interesting job.

Josy, tell us a bit about your background.

My parents are British but I grew up in the States, before coming back to the UK as a teenager. In my early twenties I had decided to go back and "try" USA. Just before booking the flight a guy I was sharing a house with (who was suspiciously swarthy and salty) asked me if I could cook, and if I had ever sailed an a few months later, I was doing a trans-Atlantic delivery having never sailed before. I then worked a season on a charter boat in the Caribbean and as a result my first ever racing was in Antigua Race Week.

Now Fate played a long hand - there is a set of coincidences here, as the guy who got me sailing to Antigua, subsequently did Antigua Race week with Owen, and several years later introduced us.

After that I spent a summer in the US but didn't settle and realised I was culturally more at home in the UK so headed back and began to think about a career. I started as an events organiser but have now worked in marketing for "n" years for information companies and business services; I had a dot.com moment (but recovered). I'm working for a large professional services company now and bore everyone in the open plan office on Monday morning with details of our weekend's sailing. Strangely they have stopped asking "how was your weekend" reverting to the safer and ultimately less time consuming "would you like a coffee?"

How did you meet?
Owen -

I was her knight in shining armour!

Josy -

My armour! We met at Easter ten years ago through the mutual friend I mentioned . After a long evening "experiencing" the Burnham social scene I was fending off the unwanted attentions of a somewhat inebriated local character and Owen came to my rescue. Looking back it was quite Bridget Jones!

Tell us a bit about your path to becoming BDA Chairman.
Owen -

Ten years ago I was secretary of the BDA under Richard Davies and then later under Mike Hales. Back in those days the secretary was responsible for putting the twice yearly BDA Magazine together and it's always a battle to get copy out of people and I usually ended up writing half the magazine.

I hadn't thought about taking on a role with the BDA at all until Rob Campbell suddenly rang me up when he found himself stepping into the breach as Chairman at relatively short notice and asked me to stand as Vice Chairman. Although it wasn't something I'd planned on doing we thought about it and it was a case of trying to find reasons not to do it and the fact is there wasn't a reason not to do it.

It was then a natural if somewhat speedy progression to take over from Rob when he took on the role of IDA Chairman at the end of last year. Not planned but on balance I am really enjoying it!

Josy -

I think we took the view that we can spend the time to support the BDA where others can't because of their family commitments, and we get so much pleasure out of Dragons and have friends in all the fleets. I used to joke with Owen that the first day of regattas I'd come away with chapped lips from kissing people. The truth is that we are quite social tarts and so we love seeing the Medway people and keeping in touch with the Burnham and Lowestoft fleets as we've known them so long and we really enjoy meeting new people too.

We obviously get two for the price of one in having Owen as BDA Chairman, but how does your partnership work in these circumstances?
Owen -

Most of the time we discuss something, argue about it for a while, I have a sulk and then I give in! Joking apart there's a lot that Josy is fantastically helpful with, particularly as she understands marketing.

Josy -

I think we have a complimentary approach. Owen is very much about the technical side of sailing and ensuring that the racing is good, and because of my marketing and event management background I think that it's important that people enjoy everything that goes around sailing Dragons and that it is managed well.

The Dragon is perceived as having a higher age demographic than many classes. What are your thoughts on this?
Owen -

Why will the dragons continue?

Traditionally people may have drifted towards the Dragon fleet over a number of years for a number of reasons: because of its long history and exposure; the fact that there's already a well established class; for the exceptionally competitive racing both nationally and internationally;

One of the problems for classes in general now is that there has been an explosion of classes which are relatively short lived but arrive on the scene with massive promotional and event management funding. The momentum of marketing from companies like Laser and RS is very impressive and they have huge marketing and event management budgets behind them. This attracts sailors in large numbers very quickly, but once the initial sponsorship tapers off and the manufacturer's interest moves onto the next new model with greater sales potential these classes virtually die.

We argue about this a lot! I think the entry price does affect the age group the class attracts. Inevitably people in their 20s and 30s are busy building careers, buying houses and starting families and they don't necessarily have the money to put into the capital expense and running costs of a Dragon. I feel that one of the things we should look at is supporting people of that age group into boat owning syndicates and how we provide an infrastructure to make that possible, but we need to do some market research to establish whether that's an attractive concept given the range of options sailors now have.

Although one of the great strengths of the fleet is that we are very friendly and we all know each other very well, one of the slight drawbacks of this is that such a close knit group can appear a little off putting to outsiders. In Cowes the problem is there are many choices for sailors so we have to work on finding the ones who enjoy one design racing and the sociability of the fleet.

The reality is that there isn't an instant fix to getting new and younger people into the Dragons. It's going to take a long term strategy over a number of years, but we're willing to put in the effort and investigate all available avenues.

Cost is obviously a consideration when it comes to the class demographic but just how big a factor do you think it is?
Owen -

We have to get the message across that Dragons aren't as expensive as people think.

Of course you can go out and order a new Dragon and it will be wonderful, and you will love it, spend hours choosing the name and waterline colour, but in our experience you can have great sailing in a well looked after 10 year old boat.

Njord is 11 years old, we came 8th in the Edinburgh Cup last year, and that was with good sailors - very good sailors - but not regular crew, unlike the majority of boats in front.

It's important to recognise that you don't have to have a new boat A ten year old boat which you can pick up for £18,000 or less is the perfect entry level boat and will keep you hanging on in there with the new boats. The people who buy boats frequently just provide the rest of the fleet with very competitive second hand options - long may it continue!

Although some of the UK Dragon Fleets remain very strong - for example the Solent, Medway, Burnham, Lowestoft and Aldeburgh Fleets - others have tailed off in recent years. How do you think this trend can be reversed?
Owen -

It's got the driven by the Class Captains and all we can do is give the Class Captains as much support as possible. Communication is certainly a key issue In the Solent fleet Ben Hancock has taken over as fleet captain and has been writing great race reports - ex dragon sailors, and resting sailors all take an interest. In the Solent there are lots of dragons in barns. I love it that people who haven't put their boat in the water keep track, because one day....they will get their keel wet and come racing.

Josy -

It's important to remember that people are time poor these days and you need to make it easy.

Tell us a bit about the planning for this year's Edinburgh Cup in Plymouth.
Owen -

Currently we're very focused on the Edinburgh Cup to make it a great experience for everyone so that not only will they attend this year, but they'll also come back again next year.

Josy -

2008 will be the 60th time we've raced for the Edinburgh Cup so this is a special year for us. It was first held in 1949 from Cowes and has been awarded to the International Dragon British Champion ever since. This year we're at the Royal Western Yacht Club in Plymouth from 9-12 July and the club is also hosting the South Coasts from 6-8 July which will act as the perfect warm up event.

What else is the BDA up to at the moment?
Owen -

One of our priorities at the moment is to become more communicative with the membership and externally. We're going to be sending e-mails out and really opening up the communication with the members so they know what's happening and where to find out about things. We're also looking to issue more press releases to let the outside world know about our events and activities. We're up against other classes with massive marketing budgets and whilst we can't necessarily compete directly against that we can do more than we have been.

Even when not racing with Owen,
Josy is still out on the water cheerleading for her team.